Re: Missing US girl bore two children

by **Dean** Sat Sep 05, 2009 4:06 pm

Men do as well, not just women. Unless you're syl of course.....

by Snookerballs Sat Sep 05, 2009 4:32 pm

Concentration Camps would be an example I suppose, where the captive relies on his/her captor for survival, it must be a basic human survival instinct that gets tapped into that creates this sort of problem.

by **Syl** Sat Sep 05, 2009 4:56 pm

Dean wrote:Men do as well, not just women. Unless you're syl of course.....

Stop looking for an argument, troll. You are on the wrong forum. Rolling Eyes

by Guest Sat Sep 05, 2009 5:04 pm

Dean and syl, behave please.

by Bunni Sat Sep 05, 2009 10:58 pm

Snookerballs wrote:........wife beating, control freak etc, these are everyday occurences which are accepted in relationships (mainly by women) Why is it that women in general accept this sort of situation.

From what i have read it is generally mental as well as physical abuse, the woman (or man) feels worthless and stays because they are told repeatedly that they are no use! IMO the relentless drip, drip, drip of poison soon makes it impossible to leave until the person either snaps or finds some personal redemption elsewhere!

by Tuscany Mon Sep 07, 2009 7:18 pm

Syl wrote:Tuscany, :wavingsmily:
I am sure sooner or later we will disagree about something. That,ll be fun.

There have been many books written recently, about the horrendous abuse children have suffered, and yet gone on to overcome all the cruelty, and live happy and fulfilling adult lives.

Have you read the trilogy by Dave Pelzer?
A child called it.....The lost boy.....A man named Dave.
They are very powerful, showing how the human spirit can rise above all manner of cruelty.

I hope he wont mind me saying, but Markey, on this forum, has been through horrors, from childhood, which beggars belief.

Re your last line, (above post)
People are different. Some may snap, some find the courage to leave, some live a life under the thumb of their tormerntor.
I dont think anyone is born evil. We may have genetic "ways" that can be channelled one way or another. But I think, if guided carefully, it would be the exception to the rule, who turned out bad.

Hello syl

I actually came on line early just to tell you the name of the book I was talking about..and you have beaten me to it! What did you think of "A child called it" ? Could you read it to the end? Did you at any point put that book down saying, this can't all be true and happening to one child?

I couldn't read it after a few chapters and actually went and googled his name, to make sure this wasn't some sort of scam. I did finish the book eventually but there were pages I just skimmed over, reading it was too much to handle can you imagine living it.

by **Syl** Mon Sep 07, 2009 7:54 pm

Hi Tuscany, I had a feeling that the book you meant, might be that one.
Yes I read it, from cover to cover. It took a while, I had to keep stopping, because I could,nt see through tears. It was horrendous.
His Mother never admitted to any abuse. She was outwardly a pillar of the community. Its been a few years since I read the trilogy. I might reread them, one day.
They are the sort of books it takes a while to get over reading.
How anyone ever manages to get over living that level of abuse, is a celebration of the human spirit.

by Tuscany Mon Sep 07, 2009 8:39 pm

Syl wrote:Hi Tuscany, I had a feeling that the book you meant, might be that one.
Yes I read it, from cover to cover. It took a while, I had to keep stopping, because I could,nt see through tears. It was horrendous.
His Mother never admitted to any abuse. She was outwardly a pillar of the community. Its been a few years since I read the trilogy. I might reread them, one day.
They are the sort of books it takes a while to get over reading.
How anyone ever manages to get over living that level of abuse, is a celebration of the human spirit.

I never did get read the other two. I am sure the last one in the trilogy was uplifting because I know what he made of himself. Was the second book as hard to read as the first?

by Tuscany Mon Sep 07, 2009 8:47 pm

Snookerballs wrote:Concentration Camps would be an example I suppose, where the captive relies on his/her captor for survival, it must be a basic human survival instinct that gets tapped into that creates this sort of problem.

Hello Snookerballs, that is the instinct I am talking about in relation to these cases. And in time, over a period of days/months/years, when the victim comes to accept that there is no escaping the situation, they begin to lean on and form attachments to their abuser. It's hard to survive otherwise. And so I wonder if the wife in this case and other cases is also in a similiar situation?

by Snookerballs Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:00 pm

A news article today states the husband refused to allow his wife to contact any of her family for nearly 30 years, it was just the wife Nancy and Jaycee Lee, in theory there was nothing to stop either of them picking up a telephone and calling the outside world or just walking out of the door, they were both totally brainwashed, very difficult to understand.

by **Syl** Mon Sep 07, 2009 11:36 pm

Tuscany wrote:
Syl wrote:Hi Tuscany, I had a feeling that the book you meant, might be that one.
Yes I read it, from cover to cover. It took a while, I had to keep stopping, because I could,nt see through tears. It was horrendous.
His Mother never admitted to any abuse. She was outwardly a pillar of the community. Its been a few years since I read the trilogy. I might reread them, one day.
They are the sort of books it takes a while to get over reading.
How anyone ever manages to get over living that level of abuse, is a celebration of the human spirit.

I never did get read the other two. I am sure the last one in the trilogy was uplifting because I know what he made of himself. Was the second book as hard to read as the first?

He was eventually taken into care.
The first book was so harrowing, I think by the time I started on the 2nd, nothing seemed as shocking.
The third, catalogued how he had tried to find answers, which were'nt forthcoming, but uplifting, as you said, because he managed to overcome his past.
I believe his brother also wrote a book, but I have,nt read it.

by Tuscany Mon Sep 07, 2009 11:49 pm

Snookerballs wrote:A news article today states the husband refused to allow his wife to contact any of her family for nearly 30 years, it was just the wife Nancy and Jaycee Lee, in theory there was nothing to stop either of them picking up a telephone and calling the outside world or just walking out of the door, they were both totally brainwashed, very difficult to understand.

Thanks Snookerballs. That was my question really when I started reading this thread. Yes, the wife's an adult, yes she should know better, yes she didn't do a thing to help this young girl escape..but do we really understand how victimised she might have been too, or is that an excuse.

by Tuscany Mon Sep 07, 2009 11:52 pm

Syl wrote:
Tuscany wrote:
Syl wrote:Hi Tuscany, I had a feeling that the book you meant, might be that one.
Yes I read it, from cover to cover. It took a while, I had to keep stopping, because I could,nt see through tears. It was horrendous.
His Mother never admitted to any abuse. She was outwardly a pillar of the community. Its been a few years since I read the trilogy. I might reread them, one day.
They are the sort of books it takes a while to get over reading.
How anyone ever manages to get over living that level of abuse, is a celebration of the human spirit.

I never did get read the other two. I am sure the last one in the trilogy was uplifting because I know what he made of himself. Was the second book as hard to read as the first?

He was eventually taken into care.
The first book was so harrowing, I think by the time I started on the 2nd, nothing seemed as shocking.
The third, catalogued how he had tried to find answers, which were'nt forthcoming, but uplifting, as you said, because he managed to overcome his past.
I believe his brother also wrote a book, but I have,nt read it.

My reason for not being able or wanting to read the second, though I should have. Did he have a surviving brother from the same mother, syl? I though I read then that her other two children had died at her hands...but I may be confusing stories here..

by **Syl** Tue Sep 08, 2009 12:04 am

Its a good few years ago that I read the books, Tuscany.
I think I am right in thinking that he had several brothers and sisters.
They also mistreated him, in order to keep on their mothers good side.
When they grew up, one, or maybe two of them disputed what had happened.
I think it was his younger brother, who eventually admitted he too had been abused.

I dont remember any of them dying. Think you may be confusing this with another book.
I did notice, that when his books became best sellers, stories of abuse seemed to be written thick and fast.

by Tuscany Tue Sep 08, 2009 12:30 am

Syl wrote:Its a good few years ago that I read the books, Tuscany.
I think I am right in thinking that he had several brothers and sisters.
They also mistreated him, in order to keep on their mothers good side.
When they grew up, one, or maybe two of them disputed what had happened.
I think it was his younger brother, who eventually admitted he too had been abused.

I dont remember any of them dying. Think you may be confusing this with another book.
I did notice, that when his books became best sellers, stories of abuse seemed to be written thick and fast.

I am. And you are right, a lot many similiar books came out after that. The book I am confusing it with was one in which the mother had abused and then killed two older siblings but for some reason kept the youngest one alive. Thanks for reminding me, now that you mentioned it I remember his siblings disputing the savagery of his abuse, and also how he used to rationalise why he was being targeted by them, when younger..

by Snookerballs Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:16 pm

Tuscany wrote:
Snookerballs wrote:A news article today states the husband refused to allow his wife to contact any of her family for nearly 30 years, it was just the wife Nancy and Jaycee Lee, in theory there was nothing to stop either of them picking up a telephone and calling the outside world or just walking out of the door, they were both totally brainwashed, very difficult to understand.

Thanks Snookerballs. That was my question really when I started reading this thread. Yes, the wife's an adult, yes she should know better, yes she didn't do a thing to help this young girl escape..but do we really understand how victimised she might have been too, or is that an excuse.

The wife was brainwashed by her husband for 30 odd years, was she a villain, or was she a victim ??? whatever the outcome no one will fully answer that question IMO.

by chronos Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:54 pm

you can be both a victim and villain at the same time.
the more important question is "Does this woman bear any legal responsibility for her illegal actions"

thats the question that she will face in court.

by Tuscany Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:08 am

chronos wrote:you can be both a victim and villain at the same time.
the more important question is "Does this woman bear any legal responsibility for her illegal actions"

thats the question that she will face in court.

Difficult question to answer, Chronos and I am thankfull I am not one of the group of people who will decide her fate. Her life in prison, and I am sure she will be imprisoned, may actually be a whole lot better that what she has had to endure the last 30 plus years.

by Snookerballs Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:41 am

chronos wrote:you can be both a victim and villain at the same time.
the more important question is "Does this woman bear any legal responsibility for her illegal actions"

thats the question that she will face in court.

My opinion, if it can be proved that she was definitely brainwashed (I think she was) she would be mentally unstable therefore not reasponsible for her actions, (in theory her actions would be hypnotic) but with our present understanding of this problem she will be imprisoned,

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