Afghanistan.

A bigger problem than the Taliban...
A thought-provoking article.

http://www.counterpunch.org/

Vilipend wrote:A bigger problem than the Taliban...
A thought-provoking article.





http://www.counterpunch.org/

.
that is one AMAZING article and it provides a huge amount of insight into the mindset of the current USA regime, and the afghan conflict itself. it contains some really good links about related issues too -tons of info there... it reminds me of hal's links!

that alexander cockburn is one clever and "well-branched" (oui? ) cookie and his article is bang up-to-date. and he provides an email address where he can be reached. he knows his article is controversial and he is clearly willing to argue the toss with anyone who contacts him.

as it happens today marks the end of operation PANTHERSCLAW, a 5 week offensive involving 3,000 british troops. a very bloody campaign indeed in which we incurred heavy losses. in fact it has been the bloodiest month in the entire 8year campaign and we're all pleased to see the back of july. our boys were dropping like flies.


you have to give posters enough time to read and digest it vils.

Thanks for the commentary Canny,
it is an interesting article and a pity that the mainstream newspapers
don't tend to do writing like this.
Although I noted that Matthew Parris in The Times the other day
pointed out that who we refer to as the Taliban
are more correctly independent groups of local militias...

Vilipend wrote:Thanks for the commentary Canny,
it is an interesting article and a pity that the mainstream newspapers
don't tend to do writing like this.
Although I noted that Matthew Parris in The Times the other day
pointed out that who we refer to as the Taliban

are more correctly independent groups of local militias...

indeed!!

as the saying goes: "what's in a name??" as long ago as 2001 it was pointed out that we call our boys troops whilst we referred to the oppostion in a variety of terms such as rebels/ insurgents/subversives/terrorists. it's psychoholgical!
who is in the right/who is in the wrong? :confusedguy: it would take a better man/lassie than me to call it!! i just want our troops home. there is literally an ENDLESS supply of willing youngsters from mostly pakistan willing to fight in afghanistan for a whole host of causes ( including ideological/financial/political),in contrast, britain does not have a limitless number of teenage soldiers to sacrifice in such controversial circumstances. we simply cannot match them in the numbers game, ne'st-ce pas??? what do you think vils?

Taliban Face Another Mutiny

July 28, 2009: In Pakistan, the return of two million refugees to Swat, and adjacent areas, is still underway. The program began on the 13th and will take several more weeks to complete. The entire population did not flee, nor did all the Taliban. Police and army patrols continue to come across small bands of Taliban, who are looking for a fight, and loot. The Taliban sustains itself by confiscating money and goods from "enemies of Islam" and extorting "voluntary contributions from others. Non-Moslems are forced to pay much higher amounts, in honor of the ancient Islamic custom of taxing non-Moslems at a much higher rate. It's the extortion, as much as the imposition of lifestyle restrictions, that has caused so many tribal organizations (who are the "government" outside the towns and cities of the tribal territories) to call up their militias and go to war with the Taliban. This has led to hundreds of Taliban being killed or captured. Others have simply fled, and are still out there, looking for loot, and trouble. The Summertime raiding is an ancient Pushtun tradition, and religious zeal is the justification (there usually has to be some rationalization for the tribal mischief) for the Taliban raiders. The other tribes recognize it for what it is, and rally to defend what is theirs. The urban areas are defended by the police and army, who are less quick (and well armed) to deal with the Taliban. But now the army, and police reinforcements, have returned, and it is the Taliban that is being hunted. Since April, 1,800 Taliban and 166 soldiers and policemen have died.

The advance into Waziristan is slow because of the need to keep army casualties low. Traditionally, the Pushtun tribesmen have killed large numbers of invaders via ambushes and hit and run attacks. By advancing slowly, using aerial reconnaissance and artillery, the army kills lots of Taliban, but takes few casualties. This is good for morale, but slow going.

The Pakistani army has sent more troops to Baluchistan, to guard the roads and passes on the border with Afghanistan's Helmand province. This is to discourage Afghan Taliban from fleeing into Pakistan, because of the U.S. and NATO offensives in Helmand. Meanwhile, someone is murdering college faculty in Baluchistan, with six dead in the last few months.

http://www.strategypage.com/qnd/india/articles/20090728.aspx

That is also an interesting article Chronos.
Do you know who wrote it?

phase one of operation panthersclaw ends today. (6 weeks of intensive combat). i have no idea what phase 2 consists of. i dread to think. i hope it does not involve more deaths of our boys and girls.

i will go off and do some serious googling to find out what phase 2 means, and i will report back tomorrow.

At what point do we declare victory and come home?

jack wrote:At what point

do we declare victory and come home?

victory????? you tease!





(((((jack, welcome back)))))

CannyX wrote:

jack wrote:At what point

do we declare victory and come home?

victory????? you tease!





(((((jack, welcome back)))))

:wavingsmily: :wavingsmily: :wavingsmily:
I'm off again tommorow :P

jack wrote:

CannyX wrote:

jack wrote:At what point

do we declare victory and come home?

victory????? you tease!





(((((jack, welcome back)))))

:wavingsmily: :wavingsmily: :wavingsmily:
I'm off again tommorow :P

aawwww damn!! whither pet??

There is talk of talking to the Taliban.
But why should they participate?
All they need to do is continue as they are.

A soldier who is refusing to return to Afghanistan delivered a letter of protest to the prime minister today condemning the war. Lance Corporal Joe Glenton of the Royal Logistics Corps argues that British soldiers are being used to advance US foreign policy.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/jul/30/soldier-afghanistan-letter-protest

"I believe this unethical short-changing of such proud men and women has caused immeasurable suffering not only to families of British service personnel who have been killed and injured, but also to the noble people of Afghanistan,"

Stop the war.

CannyX wrote:

Vilipend wrote:Thanks for the commentary Canny,
it is an interesting article and a pity that the mainstream newspapers
don't tend to do writing like this.
Although I noted that Matthew Parris in The Times the other day
pointed out that who we refer to as the Taliban

are more correctly independent groups of local militias...

indeed!!

as the saying goes: "what's in a name??" as long ago as 2001 it was pointed out that we call our boys troops whilst we referred to the oppostion in a variety of terms such as rebels/ insurgents/subversives/terrorists. it's psychoholgical!
who is in the right/who is in the wrong? :confusedguy: it would take a better man/lassie than me to call it!! i just want our troops home. there is literally an ENDLESS supply of willing youngsters from mostly pakistan willing to fight in afghanistan for a whole host of causes ( including ideological/financial/political),in contrast, britain does not have a limitless number of teenage soldiers to sacrifice in such controversial circumstances. we simply cannot match them in the numbers game, ne'st-ce pas??? what do you think vils?

We could match them in the numbers game if we released all violent criminals from our prisons and sent them to Afghanistan, after 6 weeks training in Britain.

If they want to fight, where better to send them.

jack wrote:At what point do we declare victory and come home?

There will never be a victory against the Taleban.
They will keep coming and fight to the death to rid their land of the Western aggressor. We have no need, nor do we have any right to be there.

If the might of the Russian army couldn't defeat them, what chance have we got.

Could this be history repeating itself.

Britain's Disastrous Retreat from Kabul
In 1842 Afghanistan Massacre, Only One British Soldier Survived

Very true Centurion,
a brief synopsis here:

http://history1800s.about.com/od/colonialwars/a/kabul1842.htm

"More than 16,000 people had set out on the retreat from Kabul, and in the end only one man, Dr. William Brydon, a British Army surgeon, had made it alive to Jalalabad. The garrison there lit signal fires and sounded bugles to guide other British survivors to safety, but after several days they realized that Brydon would be the only one. It was believed the Afghans let him live so he could tell the grisly story."

we certainly have every right to be there.

as for victory?
depends on what you are after.
if its killing jihadis then thats where the game is played these days.

It's not just "jihadis" who are dying there though.
766 Americans.
191 Brits.
And even one unfortunate from S.Korea...

Stop the war.

208 British soldiers now.
What for..?

Stop the war?
I agree, the Taliban should surrender right away

"Millions of Afghan women will be denied their chance to vote in presidential elections this week because there aren't enough female officials to staff the women-only polling stations."

Women-only polling stations? What's that about?

Vilipend wrote:It's not just "jihadis" who are dying there though.
766 Americans.
191 Brits.
And even one unfortunate from S.Korea...

Stop the war.

Update.
782 Americans.
204 Brits.

What a waste.

A good article here about the Afghanistan cock-up:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=14809
What a waste of money, time, and lives.

Vilipend wrote:

Vilipend wrote:It's not just "jihadis" who are dying there though.
766 Americans.
191 Brits.
And even one unfortunate from S.Korea...

Stop the war.

Update.
782 Americans.
204 Brits.

What a waste.

What a waste indeed Vils, for a war that we're never going to win.

How would we know when it was won anyway..?
Doesn't seem to be any plan.

Vilipend wrote:How would we know when it was won anyway..?
Doesn't seem to be any plan.

I suppose when the Afghan ppl can go about their business without fear of getting blown up Vils, but thats never going to happen either imo.